Biz Stone: "The core technology of Twitter is a device agnostic message routing system. For us it's growing the message traffic, which ultimately will drive our business model"
Marc about Facebook: "We'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you're going through hypergrowth - but you gotta start opening to input quickly if you don't want to become the enemy"
@ralphm and I explaining the federated model to Marc, Biz, and the audience... we're working on a document about federating services, @ralphm is talking with Blaine at Twitter...
There's talk about explicitly attributing the types of relationships you have with the people in your social network - the annoying thing when you add a friend on Facebook. It'll never have enough checkboxes. Biz thinks we should do away with it. Marc: "We vendors aren't doing anything with those relationships yet. Shouldn't the service display a different set of stuff about me to a close friend and a stranger?"
I think probably some explicit attribution will work, as long as it's transparent to people what effect that has on e.g. what data will be displayed to them about others and about them to others. But requiring people to go back and edit those relationships every time their relationships change is a dystopic daydream. Instead, services should look at the traces people leave about their relationships as they engage with each other through social objects (who has marked whose photos as favorite, who comments on whose Jaikus/tweets, etc.)
Moving = I'm tired of Jaiku, I want to move all my contacts & content to Twitter
Syncing = Whenever I start/stop following a new person on Jaiku, I want that to happen on Twitter too (and so on)
Federating = I want to be able to choose whichever service I like most (say, Pownce), and still get updates from my friends who are on Twitter and Jaiku
Dick Hardt: "Potentially they'll make it fully open, but my guess is it'll be partly federated but services like Facebook will keep parts of their service proprietary. There needs to be a motivation for networks to open up."
Marc: "The future of lock in is around who issues the OpenID identity. Every single openID has a domain. If you set up your openID on Hives, your userid will be @hives.com"
I may not be on the same page but it seems to me what got us in this social tornado that we seem to be in right now was the ambiguousness of everything. I never really understood the relationship status thing on facebook, what's the point? If i am reconnecting with people, why do other people need to know that? The only thing that I have seen that will really help the social tidal wave is when a service(such as this one) gives you suggestions of friends of friends and who may be interesting to you. (The trick being, it is up to you to figure out why they may fit into your social circle) That is what being social is all about isn't it? I keep my circle very small because I don't have alot of time to be all that social, but once in a while I make an impression on someone or they make an impression on me and they get brought into my group.The biggest problems I see right now across the board for you and facebook and twitter is brand loyalty and oversaturation. Everyone is so spread out and most of us only have time for one or two services, well I have friends that exclusively use facebook and I don't really, so i go on and try and make the best of it. Now if there was an effort from facebook to find more people, or give me the tools to find more like minded people,maybe I would stay.("Instead, services should look at the traces people leave about their relationships as they engage with each other through social objects (who has marked whose photos as favorite, who comments on whose Jaikus/tweets, etc.") This is where alot of people should be going. Take a little actual social structure and consider that when you are designing ways to be virtually structured. If you were out in public would you gravitate towards people that you had stuff in common with or common associations with or just some random people? Far and few in between would say random people. It is the responsibility of companies that want to monetize being social to create healthy environments for all of us to be social in....Sorry I got long winded
"Different set of stuff to close friends and strangers." I agree. My Jaiku setting is on 'non public' and I don't share my Jaiku stream in eg. FB, where the audience is way too huge and varied for my Jaikus. ;)
Biz and I get asked about business models. I see 4 ones: 1) ads in the activity stream; Pownce-style full posts or Blyk-style tail tags 2) pro subscriptions, for server space (a la Flickr) or extra features (eg create 3+ channels on Jaiku)
Great thread! I hope this kind of discussion continues amongst the big players. All of this networking, though a wonderful thing, can quickly turn into a nightmare for the end user.
32 comments so far
What is meant by portability?
1 year, 9 months ago by pirita
In this context I mean?
1 year, 9 months ago by pirita
Say hi to Marc from me Jyri!
1 year, 9 months ago by tonzylstra
Marc: "Is Fitz promoting a centralized model? A hybrid. He says there could be many centralized servers."
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Biz Stone: "The core technology of Twitter is a device agnostic message routing system. For us it's growing the message traffic, which ultimately will drive our business model"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Biz Stone: "I see Twitter becoming more invisible and people hearing less about it. They don't care that it's Twitter routing it."
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Comment from the audience: "The problem is lack of interoperability, not lack of portability."
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Marc on Facebook being only 98% open: "You gotta be able to spit and suck - give us full access to the newsfeed"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Marc about Facebook: "We'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you're going through hypergrowth - but you gotta start opening to input quickly if you don't want to become the enemy"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Marc on attention data: "Netvibes' business model is to monetize the attention data you give them."
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Attention trust: "Everything you collect you should put into attention.xml, and offer it back to the end user"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
This meme is beginning to sound a lot like a kind of Creative Commons ShareAlike-style approach to attention streams
1 year, 9 months ago by pauljacobson
Marc: "It's not the market today, but the market will be supporting multiple personas"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
@ralphm and I explaining the federated model to Marc, Biz, and the audience... we're working on a document about federating services, @ralphm is talking with Blaine at Twitter...
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
There's talk about explicitly attributing the types of relationships you have with the people in your social network - the annoying thing when you add a friend on Facebook. It'll never have enough checkboxes. Biz thinks we should do away with it. Marc: "We vendors aren't doing anything with those relationships yet. Shouldn't the service display a different set of stuff about me to a close friend and a stranger?"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
I think probably some explicit attribution will work, as long as it's transparent to people what effect that has on e.g. what data will be displayed to them about others and about them to others. But requiring people to go back and edit those relationships every time their relationships change is a dystopic daydream. Instead, services should look at the traces people leave about their relationships as they engage with each other through social objects (who has marked whose photos as favorite, who comments on whose Jaikus/tweets, etc.)
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Interesting stuff jyri, good food for thought.
1 year, 9 months ago by oyunfound
@ralphm describes three ways to interoperate:
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Biz Stone uses a comment to agree with the federating approach. A lot of approving grunts from the audience ;)
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Dick Hardt: "Potentially they'll make it fully open, but my guess is it'll be partly federated but services like Facebook will keep parts of their service proprietary. There needs to be a motivation for networks to open up."
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
Marc: "The future of lock in is around who issues the OpenID identity. Every single openID has a domain. If you set up your openID on Hives, your userid will be @hives.com"
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
I may not be on the same page but it seems to me what got us in this social tornado that we seem to be in right now was the ambiguousness of everything. I never really understood the relationship status thing on facebook, what's the point? If i am reconnecting with people, why do other people need to know that? The only thing that I have seen that will really help the social tidal wave is when a service(such as this one) gives you suggestions of friends of friends and who may be interesting to you. (The trick being, it is up to you to figure out why they may fit into your social circle) That is what being social is all about isn't it? I keep my circle very small because I don't have alot of time to be all that social, but once in a while I make an impression on someone or they make an impression on me and they get brought into my group.The biggest problems I see right now across the board for you and facebook and twitter is brand loyalty and oversaturation. Everyone is so spread out and most of us only have time for one or two services, well I have friends that exclusively use facebook and I don't really, so i go on and try and make the best of it. Now if there was an effort from facebook to find more people, or give me the tools to find more like minded people,maybe I would stay.("Instead, services should look at the traces people leave about their relationships as they engage with each other through social objects (who has marked whose photos as favorite, who comments on whose Jaikus/tweets, etc.") This is where alot of people should be going. Take a little actual social structure and consider that when you are designing ways to be virtually structured. If you were out in public would you gravitate towards people that you had stuff in common with or common associations with or just some random people? Far and few in between would say random people. It is the responsibility of companies that want to monetize being social to create healthy environments for all of us to be social in....Sorry I got long winded
1 year, 9 months ago by oyunfound
"Different set of stuff to close friends and strangers." I agree. My Jaiku setting is on 'non public' and I don't share my Jaiku stream in eg. FB, where the audience is way too huge and varied for my Jaikus. ;)
1 year, 9 months ago by pirita
"The future of lock in." - What a load of horsehockey! Lock in has no future...
1 year, 9 months ago by fabsh
oh god, I don't know am I sharing it in FB.
So if my jaiku stream stream is non public, stanngers might be able to see it on FB? if setttings are wrong.
Here we go again.
1 year, 9 months ago by jounikjuntunen
Biz and I get asked about business models. I see 4 ones: 1) ads in the activity stream; Pownce-style full posts or Blyk-style tail tags 2) pro subscriptions, for server space (a la Flickr) or extra features (eg create 3+ channels on Jaiku)
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
3) rev share with mobile operators who charge for data 4) micro-transactions for icons, gifts and other extra goodies a la Habbo
1 year, 9 months ago by jyri
great stuff, @oyunfound please add a few paragraphs for increased readibilty next time you're micro-macro-blogging, k thx bai
1 year, 9 months ago by cervus
sorry @cervus really bad habit of mine
1 year, 9 months ago by oyunfound
Good stuff jyri. I'll do a complete write-up about this soon :)
1 year, 9 months ago by BlueAce
Great thread! I hope this kind of discussion continues amongst the big players. All of this networking, though a wonderful thing, can quickly turn into a nightmare for the end user.
1 year, 9 months ago by zenith
Yes, VERY interesting. Where will your complete write-up get published, BlueAce?
1 year, 9 months ago by Willumsgaard20